Top 250 Tv Shows Like Sex: The Annabel Chong Story

The early life of child genius Sheldon Cooper, later seen in The Big Bang Theory.

A housewife sits on the stoop of her apartment building in a black neighborhood of Washington, D.C., and discusses all manner of things with her neighbors.

Reverend Eric Camden and his wife Annie have always had their hands full caring for seven children, not to mention the friends, sweethearts and spouses that continually come and go in the Camden household.

Justin Tolchuk is a sensitive, lanky 16-year-old just trying to make it through the social nightmare of high school in Medora, Wisconsin. When his well-meaning mom Franny signs up for the school's international exchange student program, she pictures an athletic, brilliant Nordic teen who will bestow instant coolness on her outsider son. However, when the Tolchuk's exchange student arrives, he turns out to be Raja Musharaff, a 16-year-old Pakistani Muslim. It's going to be a very interesting year for Raja, Justin, his family and the entire population of Medora.

The story of a wealthy family that lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together.

This sketch show specialises in parodies of movies, shows and commercials. Special guest stars join them in the comedy sketches with crazy results.

The story of Bill Henrickson and his life in suburban Salt Lake City, balancing the needs of his three wives -- Barb, Nicki and Margene-- their seven kids, three new houses and the opening of his newest hardware store. When disturbing news arrives about Bill's father, he is forced to reconnect with his polygamist parents who live on a fundamentalist compound in rural Utah.

Brotherly Love is an American sitcom that ran from September 16, 1995 to April 1, 1996, on NBC, and then moved to The WB, where it aired from September 15, 1996 until May 18, 1997. The series was created by Jonathan Schmock and Jim Vallely, and produced by Witt/Thomas Productions in association with Touchstone Television and Walt Disney Television. The primary focus of the series is on the relationship of three brothers, played by Joey Lawrence, Matthew Lawrence and Andrew Lawrence.

Follows the operations of Carlo's Bakery, a family-owned business in Hoboken, New Jersey owned and operated by siblings Buddy Valastro, Lisa Valastro, Maddalena Castano, Grace Faugno and Mary Sciarrone. The show focuses on how they make their cakes, and the interpersonal relationships among the various family members and other employees who work at the shop.

Set 58 years before Battlestar Galactica, Caprica follows two rival families - the Graystones and the Adamas - as they grow, compete, and thrive in the vibrant world of the peaceful 12 Colonies, living in a society close to our own. Entangled in the burgeoning technology of artificial intelligence and robotics that will eventually lead to the creation of the Cylons, the two houses go toe-to-toe, blending action with corporate conspiracy and sexual politics.

Looking down on her friends and family isn't a way of life for Mary Alice Young... it's a way of death. One day, in her perfect house, in the loveliest of suburbs, Mary Alice ended it all. Now she's taking us into the lives of her family, friends and neighbors, commenting from her elevated P.O.V.

Follows two of America’s wealthiest families, the Carringtons and the Colbys, as they feud for control over their fortune and their children focusing on Fallon Carrington, the daughter of billionaire Blake Carrington, and her soon-to-be stepmother, Cristal, a Hispanic woman marrying into this WASP family and America’s most powerful class.

Chris is a teenager growing up as the eldest of three children in Brooklyn, New York during the early 1980s. Uprooted to a new neighborhood and bused to a predominantly white middle school two-hours away by his strict, hard-working parents, Chris struggles to find his place while keeping his siblings in line at home and surmounting the challenges of junior high.

Family man Jim Anderson copes with the everyday problems among his wife Margaret and their three children as they experience day-to-day changes.

A look at the lives of two best friends and neighbors since birth, Tucker and Rebecca, and their respective adventures as they travel through the world of eighth grade.

Alicia Florrick boldly assumes full responsibility for her family and re-enters the workforce after her husband's very public sex and political corruption scandal lands him in jail.

Grace Kelly is a tough woman with kids to raise. A recently divorced recovering alcoholic, Grace struggles with the pressures of being a single mother supporting three children. Grace doesn't always handle situations with, well, grace, but she does get results.

Five students at the largest public high school in Brooklyn take on a chaotic world as they fight to succeed, survive, break free and seize the future.

Home and Away is set in the fictional town of Summer Bay, a coastal town in New South Wales, and follows the personal and professional lives of the people living in the area. The show initially focused on the Fletcher family, Pippa and Tom Fletcher and their five foster children Frank Morgan, Carly Morris, Steven Matheson, Lynn Davenport and Sally Keating, who would go on to become one of the show's longest-running characters. The show also originally and currently focuses on the Stewart family. During the early 2000s, the central storylines focused on the Sutherlands and later, the Hunters. Home and Away had proved popular when it premiered in 1988 and had risen to become a hit in Australia, and after only a few weeks, the show tackled its first major and disturbing storyline, the rape of Carly Morris; it was one of the first shows to feature such storylines during the early timeslot. H&A has tackled many adult-themed and controversial storylines; something rarely found in its restricted timeslot.

The heartwarming yet uncomfortable relationship between three adult siblings: one in the 1%, one middle-class and one barely holding on.

A comedy-drama following a chaste young woman who is accidentally impregnated via artificial insemination as she struggles to inform her devoutly religious family and make the right choices concerning the child. Based on the telenovela "Juana la virgen."

16-year-old Lux was given up for adoption at birth but never adopted. When she is put back into the custody of her estranged-since-high-school birth parents, Cate and Baze, the three form an unlikely family.

A gifted young teen tries to survive life with his dimwitted, dysfunctional family.

A contemporary and culturally resonant drama about a young programmer, Elliot, who suffers from a debilitating anti-social disorder and decides that he can only connect to people by hacking them. He wields his skills as a weapon to protect the people that he cares about. Elliot will find himself in the intersection between a cybersecurity firm he works for and the underworld organizations that are recruiting him to bring down corporate America.

A family of friendly monsters that have misadventures all while never quite understanding why people react to them so strangely.

The life of a 15 year-old high school student, whose angst-ridden journey through adolescence, friendship, parents, and life teaches her what it means to grow up.

In Tree Hill, North Carolina two half brothers share a last name and nothing else. Brooding, blue-collar Lucas is a talented street-side basketball player, but his skills are appreciated only by his friends at the river court. Popular, affluent Nathan basks in the hero-worship of the town, as the star of his high school team. And both boys are the son of former college ball player Dan Scott whose long ago choice to abandon Lucas and his mother Karen, will haunt him long into his life with wife Deb and their son Nathan.

The Osbournes is an American reality television program featuring the domestic life of heavy metal singer Ozzy Osbourne and his family. The series premiered on MTV on March 5, 2002, and in its first season, was cited as the most-viewed series ever on MTV. The final episode of the series aired March 21, 2005.

Based on the Pretty Little Liars series of young adult novels by Sara Shepard, the series follows the lives of four girls — Spencer, Hanna, Aria, and Emily — whose clique falls apart after the disappearance of their queen bee, Alison. One year later, they begin receiving messages from someone using the name "A" who threatens to expose their secrets — including long-hidden ones they thought only Alison knew.

Brash humor and genuine emotion make up this original series revolving around the lives, loves, ambitions, careers and friendships of a group of gay men and women living on Liberty Avenue in contemporary Pittsburgh, PA. The show offers an unapologetic look at modern, urban gay and lesbian lives while addressing the most critical health and political issues affecting the community. Sometimes racy, sometimes sensitive and always straight to the heart.

British comedy series focusing on the lives of a working-class family in Manchester who love the TV.

Amy and her friends at Grant High learn to define themselves while they navigate the perilous waters of contemporary adolescence. Between their love triangles, secrets, drama, accusations, gossip, confusion, and scandalous rumors, there's never a dull moment.

Set in Springfield, the average American town, the show focuses on the antics and everyday adventures of the Simpson family; Homer, Marge, Bart, Lisa and Maggie, as well as a virtual cast of thousands. Since the beginning, the series has been a pop culture icon, attracting hundreds of celebrities to guest star. The show has also made name for itself in its fearless satirical take on politics, media and American life in general.

An adrenalized drama with darkly comedic undertones that explores a notorious outlaw motorcycle club’s (MC) desire to protect its livelihood while ensuring that their simple, sheltered town of Charming, California remains exactly that, charming. The MC must confront threats from drug dealers, corporate developers, and overzealous law officers. Behind the MC’s familial lifestyle and legally thriving automotive shop is a ruthless and illegal arms business driven by the seduction of money, power, and blood.

After 18 years of marriage, high school sweethearts Bill and Judy Miller still make each other laugh and try to keep their marriage intact, even when their family pulls them in different directions. Since Bill has a far more immature approach to marriage and raising their three children than Judy does, they work at striking a balance and remembering why they love each other, quirks and all.

Crank up the 8-track and flash back to a time when platform shoes and puka shells were all the rage in this hilarious retro-sitcom. For Eric, Kelso, Jackie, Hyde, Donna and Fez, a group of high school teens who spend most of their time hanging out in Eric’s basement, life in the ‘70s isn’t always so groovy. But between trying to figure out the meaning of life, avoiding their parents, and dealing with out-of-control hormones, they’ve learned one thing for sure: they’ll always get by with a little help from their friends.

Two 11-year-old rabbit twins named Yin and Yang train under Master Yo, a grumpy old panda. They learn the sacred art of Woo Foo, a special type of martial arts that involves both might and magic. They must work together to save the world from evil villains and forces that want to destroy, corrupt or take it over. However, through all these adventures, Yin and Yang still portray stereotypical siblings; belligerently antagonistic but still ultimately caring about each other and working together if needed.

After an unusual event, Zoey Clarke, a whip-smart computer coder forging her way in San Francisco, suddenly starts to hear the innermost wants, thoughts and desires of the people around her through popular songs.

Footballers' Wives is a British television drama surrounding the fictional Premier League Association football club Earls Park F.C., its players, and their wives. It was broadcast on the ITV network from 8 January 2002 to 14 April 2006. The show began with a multi-lateral focus on a variety of different types of relationships explored; however, from the third series onward, the primary focus was on a complex love triangle between Tanya Turner, Amber Gates and Conrad Gates.

The daily soap that follows the loves, lives and misdemeanours of a group of people living in the Chester village of Hollyoaks where anything could, and frequently does, happen...

They're just your average family. Stressed mum Bill, daft dad Ben, and two troublesome teens. Plus just a few crazy ideas, escapades and mishaps. The classic 90s sitcom.

Rev. Daniel Webster, an unconventional Episcopalian priest who not only believes in Jesus, but actually sees him and discusses life with him, is challenged on many levels as he struggles to be a good husband, father and minister, while navigating an often rocky relationship with the church hierarchy.

Set in the charming town of Stars Hollow, Connecticut, the series follows the captivating lives of Lorelai and Rory Gilmore, a mother/daughter pair who have a relationship most people only dream of.

At home and school, she's Miley Stewart, a typical teenager, but when the lights go down and the curtain goes up, she emerges as the glamorous and talented Hannah Montana. Having the "Best of Both Worlds" is a complicated proposition, and keeping her identity under wraps leads Miley and her friends into some hilarious capers as she tries to balance her normal life with her rock star persona.

A Bit of a Do is a British comedy drama series based on the books by David Nobbs. The show starred David Jason and was aired on ITV in 1989. It was made for the ITV network by Yorkshire Television. The show was set in a fictional Yorkshire town. Each episode took place at a different social function and followed the changing lives of two families, the working-class Simcocks and the middle-class Rodenhursts, together with their respective friends, Rodney and Betty Sillitoe, and Neville Badger. The series begins with the wedding of Ted and Rita Simcock's son Paul to Laurence and Liz Rodenhurst's daughter Jenny; an event at which Ted and Liz begin an affair. The subsequent fallout from this affair forms the basis for most of the first series.

Andrew and Maggie Prentice have taken early retirement and plan to move to France, however when tragedy strikes they are left to care for their three grandchildren: Georgia, Jake and Michael and are going nowhere fast.

James Gunn's PG Porn is a web series created by brothers James Gunn, Brian Gunn, and Sean Gunn. It consists of a series of pornography spoofs, with a humorous event occurring just before the supposed commencement of pornographic sexual acts. Each episode pairs a mainstream actor with a pornographic actress or model. The tagline is, "For people who love everything about Porn...except the sex." The initial web episode premiered on Spike.com and received over a million hits in a week, and was featured on Entertainment Weekly's The Must List. Spike subsequently picked up the series for an additional 11 episodes.

Family Business was an American reality TV series produced for the cable network Showtime. Based in Los Angeles, the series focused on the pornography industry and the life of Adam Glasser, a reality porn star and video director who uses the stage name "Seymore Butts". Also featured on the series were his son, Brady, along with his mother, Lila Glasser, and his older cousin, Stevie Glasser, both of whom help Adam run the eponymous "family business" of the series, which in this case is a successful porn video production and distribution house in the San Fernando Valley, known for the "Seymore Butts" line of videos. The series first aired in 2003. In Canada it is broadcast on The Movie Network, Movie Central, and Showcase Television, in the UK on Channel 4, and in Latin America on FX. The first two seasons are currently available on DVD in North America. The series ran for four seasons. The series won the 2005 AVN award for 'Best Alternative Release'.

Desmond's was a British television situation comedy broadcast by Channel 4 from 1989 to 1994. With 71 episodes, Desmond's became Channel 4's longest-running sitcom. The first series was shot in 1988, with the first episode broadcast in January 1989. The show was made in and set in Peckham, London, England and featured a predominantly Black British Guyanese cast. Conceived and co-written by Trix Worrell, and produced by Charlie Hanson and Humphrey Barclay, this series starred Norman Beaton as barber Desmond Ambrose. Desmond's shop was a gathering place for an assortment of local characters.

Automan is an American science fiction superhero television series produced by Glen A. Larson. It aired for only 12 episodes on ABC between 1983 and 1984.

In a comprehensive high school, four teens head up the student radio station. Working together, they face some electrifying situations, not to mention downright explosive!

Sitcom about a former television presenter searching for something more meaningful to do in life.

Mrs. Brown's Boys is a British-Irish award winning sitcom created by and starring writer and performer Brendan O'Carroll. The show is based on O'Carroll's stage plays about the character Agnes Browne, which were developed from books and straight-to-DVD films. The sitcom continues the stories of Agnes, now with the shortened surname "Brown", and her family who are played by real life close friends and family of O'Carroll's. After being slated by critics, the show has become a ratings success in both Ireland, where it is set, and the United Kingdom, where it is recorded. On 29 December 2012 the show began its third series. Mrs Brown's Boys is a co-production among BBC Scotland, BocPix and RTÉ.

Anthology series wherein each episode, Jacqueline Stone reads a letter sent in from women recounting their erotic experiences.

The gripping story of three different families living in the same house in the 1960’s, 1980’s and present day. The families are linked by the spirit of a young girl – the 1960’s family’s daughter who died in mysterious circumstances.

A video-based Japanese language study course for English speakers. The show uses a drama called "Yan and the Japanese People" for instruction. This drama consists of scenes which focus on the experiences of a young man named Yan, a foreigner living and working in Japan.

During the rise of the PC era in the early 1980s, an unlikely trio - a visionary, an engineer and a prodigy - take personal and professional risks in the race to build a computer that will change the world as they know it.

The adult documentary series takes viewers on an international journey to the hot and erotic world of real sex clubs, exposing the practices and fetishes of real people worldwide.

They’ve been man’s best friend for thousands of years. But how much do we really know about our dogs and where they came from?

Griffin Conner, a med-school dropout having left in a haze of disgrace, is forced to return to Bethune General Hospital as its newest orderly and work alongside his family.

Cam Calloway is about to find out the price he'll pay for stardom, love and loyalty. A basketball star in his early 20s, Calloway's life changes after he signs a multimillion-dollar contract with a team in Atlanta. He arrives in Georgia bright-eyed and eager to begin his career, joined by cousin and confidant Reggie Vaughn, who tries to keep Cam focused and free from distractions caused by Cam's blunt-but-loyal sister M-Chuck and opportunistic mom Cassie. Feeling a responsibility to support needy family and friends, Cam wrestles with the rewards and pitfalls of sudden wealth and fame.

This delightful new series gets under the sometimes leathery skin of our animal friends, exploring how we live with them, care for them and also rely on them to protect and defend as well as comfort us in our time of need. The series also takes a look at the individual personalities of our beloved pets, including the way in which they communicate and how they cope with domestication, as well as exploring some of their quirkier moments.

Investigative documentary series exploring a range of simple and universal topics related to how local men and women perceive and experience their sexuality, each in their own way.

A reality-based docu-series that explores the world of “Gay for Pay,” a term used to describe when straight men do gay porn for money.

An unusual, real-world romance involving relatable people, with one catch - there are three of them! You Me Her infuses the sensibilities of a smart, grounded indie rom-com with a distinctive twist: one of the two parties just happens to be a suburban married couple.

The story of the legalization and subsequent rise of the porn industry in New York’s Times Square from the early ’70s through the mid ’80s, exploring the rough-and-tumble world that existed there until the rise of HIV, the violence of the cocaine epidemic and the renewed real estate market ended the bawdy turbulence of the area.

Four women juggle love, careers, and parenthood. They support, challenge, and try not to judge each other as life throws them curveballs. Whether it is an identity crisis, a huge job opportunity, postpartum depression, or an unplanned pregnancy – they face both the good and bad with grace and humour.

Sexologist and therapist Sofia Prado, director of an institute of alternative therapies, has to deal with her own emotional disorders, which she hides from everyone. From the revelation of one of her patients, the specialist becomes involved in a dangerous network of corruption.

The Defoes, a family of female divorce lawyers, are forced to face their past following the return of their estranged father after a 30 year absence.

16-year-old Henry Coles is an outsider in her new town of Reston, New York. With a major chip on her shoulder and no friends, she remains withdrawn and isolated, but everything changes when a traumatic encounter with a classmate triggers something deep within Henry— unleashing a power she cannot control.

Documentary series exploring three aspects of the sex industry in the UK - porn, escorts working from their own homes and prostitutes working on the streets. Not for the faint-hearted.

Adult drama that delves inside the porn industry from the perspective of poster girl Jolene Dollar, who juggles her on-set persona with motherhood and home life.

Claire Wilson, a young teacher at a suburban Texas high school, begins an affair with her student, Eric Walker. But their relationship accelerates faster than anticipated and the permanent damage becomes impossible to ignore.

Media student Bu Xiao Gu has a dream: she is determined to become an outstanding producer. Her idol is Chun Yu Qiao, who is a top-notch producer at Xintian production company, and Xiao Gu manages to enter the company as an intern. But Yu Qiao’s unreasonable personality makes Xiao Gu feel great disappointment. With her hopes shattered, Xiao Gu is asleep at the wheel and not only causes a live broadcast accident which makes her lose her job, but also misses the deadline for her master thesis. However, Yu Qiao takes on the sole responsibility for the accident and thus saves Xiao Gu’s career. Xiao Gu finally recognizes Yu Qiao’s true personality and the two start to work and fight for their dreams together.

Four curious young dinosaur friends explore the mystery of Gigantosaurus, the largest, fiercest dinosaur of all, facing their individual fears and working together to solve problems during their many adventures.

Docuseries taking a behind the scenes look at Britain's largest independent chocolate company.

After accidentally breaking a statue of the guardian god of the Asakusa district, middle school students Kazuki, Toi and Enta are transformed into kappas -creatures from japanese folklore- by Keppi, self-proclaimed prince of the Kappa Kingdom. If they want to regain their human form, they must collect the five Dishes of Hope for him, which fulfill the wishes of whoever possesses them. To do so, they will fight against the kappa-zombies and extract their "shirikodama", the mythical organ containing humans' deepest desires. Two policemen, Reo and Mabu, are the ones behind this evil scheme, turning humans into zombies as agents of the Otter Empire, enemy of the Kappa Kingdom since ancient times. In the guise of "Kappazon, Inc.", they control society by manipulating the desires of the masses for their own goals. To succeed in their mission, the boys must be connected through the "Sarazanmai", revealing their most intimate secrets in the process...

Two times guinness world record holder and world-renowned endurance rider Kevin Sanders has a dream. Kevin an ex motorcycle courier, wants to gather up a team of ordinary people, train them and lead them on the very first motorcycle expedition ever to attempt a Trans-Asian crossing via Mount Everest from London to Beijing - a staggering 21,000 kilometers.

Five ordinary mums confront the impact of easy access porn on their kids and shine a light on the issues relating to young people’s attitude toward sex today. Combining focused journalism with warm and mischievous entertainment, the mums explore the world of modern pornography to produce their own 12-minute porn film.

Adam Savage combines his insatiable curiosity and nearly unparalleled inventiveness as he attempts to build working, innovative items. Each episode will focus on one project as Adam collaborates with notable experts in their fields, friends, colleagues and others.

Series following students working within the sex industry as they attempt to pay off their student debt by stripping, escorting and filming pornography.

Gold Digger tells the story of wealthy 60 year old Julia as she falls in love with Benjamin, a man 25 years her junior. As this six part series progresses the impact their unconventional relationship has on her family is explored and the secrets of their past are revealed. Has Julia finally found the happiness she's always deserved? Or is Benjamin really the gold digger they think he is?

Dinner with Dani is a round table discussion, led by Adult Film Megastar Dani Daniels, with other adult film stars, musicians and the occasional science geek talking about sex, fun, life and "war stories” in a hilarious format that is sure to shock and amuse. This is definitely not-safe-for-work!

A woman's daring sexual past collides with her married-with-kids present when the bad-boy ex she can't stop fantasizing about crashes back into her life.

In this contemporary take on the beloved book series, five best friends launch a baby-sitting business that's big on fun and adventure.

Maureen is an Irishwoman, happily married and living in Germany. Or so she thinks. When her husband dies, she finds that not only had he debts, but was also a bigamist, having had a second wife and family in Ireland. Shocked and angry, she travels there to meet the other family. And she learns that they have troubles of their own, the worst of them being that the other woman's young son is suffering from leukemia and a suitable bone marrow donor is urgently needed.

Exploring body image, sex, and beauty, Elaine Chong challenges all she learned from movies, TV, and even family while growing up British East Asian and explores why the desire to fit in to a foreign culture while meeting the standards demanded by Asian family can leave some in an almost impossible situation.

The origin story of Gal Dove, Don Logan, and Teddy Bass. Explore Gal and Don’s complicated relationship as Gal finds himself descending into the seductive madness of the London criminal world during the vibrant and volatile 1990s while falling in love with DeeDee.

Co-hosted by Nikki Benz and Keiran Lee, Brazzers House is home to 10 sexy pornstar contestants, all living under the same roof. The competition heats up when the house guests are divided into two teams and face elimination with a series of mental and physical challenges. Brazzers members have a chance to vote for their favorite team at the end of each episode and when all the votes are counted, one team will be evicted and the other will be crowned the winner of the house challenges. That lucky team of 5 contestants gets to participate in the final live challenge, where each house guest will compete against each other in the hopes of taking home the Grand Prize!

Fluid millennial Sabi Mehboob straddles various identities from bartender at an LGBTQ bookstore/bar, to the youngest child in a Pakistani family, to the de facto parent of a downtown hipster family. Sabi feels like they’re in transition in every aspect of their life, from gender to love to sexuality to family to career.

The gripping story of Eileen Franklin who, while playing with her young daughter, suddenly had a memory of witnessing the rape and murder of her childhood best friend, 8-year-old Susan Nason, which led to a re-opening of a case that had gone unsolved for nearly 20 years.

Hello, Wisconsin! It's 1995 and Leia Forman, daughter of Eric and Donna, is visiting her grandparents for the summer where she bonds with a new generation of Point Place kids under the watchful eye of Kitty and the stern glare of Red. Sex, drugs and rock 'n roll never dies, it just changes clothes.

Documentary series delving into the real lives of a group of UK adult entertainers working in the porn industry today. Revealing what life's really like for a porn star in a modern world.

Sex, joy and modern science converge in this eye-opening series that celebrates the complex world of women's pleasure — and puts stubborn myths to rest.

Interviews with friends, family and Sally McNeil herself chart a bodybuilding couple’s rocky marriage — and its shocking end in a Valentine's Day murder.

Jason lands a job working for Lucky Duck Industries, one of the world's largest sex toy manufacturing companies. But he's got to work for his demanding mother-in-law and contend with his jealous brother-in-law.

A documentary series focusing on the music from Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. The show centers on the songs and score from the movie and features interview with director Ryan Coogler, composer Ludwig Göransson, among others.

Drafted to the NBA out of high school when he was only 19 years old, two time NBA Champion JR Smith has a new focus. He's getting a college education and pursuing a new athletic passion at the nation’s largest historically black university - North Carolina A&T.

The identity of the serial killer known as 'The Zodiac' has been confounding investigators for nearly fifty years, but an unlikely and unconventional theorist may have finally shed light to America's most famous cold case by asking a question that no one else has ever dared ask: what if the reason the Zodiac has never been caught... is because he never existed in the first place?